Compensation for Forced Sterilizations
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/10/us/redress-weighed-for-forced-sterilizations-in-north-carolina.html?pagewanted=3&_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha23
I feel that this was a great movement to reimburse those who were unfairly sterilized. To take a family away from a human being is so immoral, cruel, and sickening that I cant even think about how these people must feel. The choice to have kids was unfairly taken from them and I feel that they are doing the right thing to correct past actions
I totally agree with you brent. These people deserve to be reimbursed for this because they didn't know it was going on and didn't give their consent for the procedure in the first place. Its unfair to take away someone's ability to have children. Nobody has the right to stop someone from reproducing except that individual person. Its good that people realized how wrong this was and took a step to right their wrong, even if they can't actually go back in time to fix it, giving their families money is a step in the right direction.
I think that compensating these families is the right idea, but I don't think that there can ever truly be repayment for taking a potential child away from someone- basically taking away all the joys, happiness and life experience that comes with starting a family. Again, I think its good that something is being done to attempt to make things right, but money is nowhere near a substitue for not only taking a potential child away from someone, but denying them of their inherent dignity and autonomy to make their own life choices.
Never do I agree with anyone telling anyone or myself in this matter that they have to get something especially medically without my true consent. But it is important to look at it through a Legal standpoint, and the case of Buck v Bell in 1927. The issue in this case that a state statute permitting compulsory sterilization of the unfit, including the mentally retarded, "for the protection and health of the state" violate the Due Process? The United States Supreme Court ruled that it DID NOT violate the Due Process of the Fourteenth Amendment. Although I do not at all agree with this decision, and this holding as been criticized in the Federal and State courts, it has never expressly been overruled.
Very good point Jason, although if we would look through all the laws around our cities and states, I am sure we would find many out of date laws that are no longer enforced. I have heard that in Covington they have a law that forbids women wearing shorts out in public. Obviously this is not enforced, and also is a huge infringement on women's rights. This is just another example of old laws made back in the 1920's and 1930's that still have not been expressly over-ruled. The time it would take to comb through all the laws and officially over rule every law that is wrong, outdated, or no longer relevant would take a huge time commitment and therefore it has never really been done to a complete extent. So yes I agree that technically no law was broken, but many laws such as this are out of date. (And yes I know you don't agree with forced sterilizations but just trying to make a counter point for the sake of discussion).
After everything that we have learned so far in this class, I could probably make a list of all the moral infringements that took place with these eugenics programs. Coercion, deception, and manipulation were all used in order to serious and permanent medical procedures on people. It's so difficult to wrap my head around how so many people from social services and the medical field were willing to essentially strip away people's autonomy completely. As the article stated, there is no price you can put on the life/lives of the human beings you denied a person the right to reproduce but these acts cannot simply be swept under a rug and forgotten. If anything, these people should be compensated for the unethical procedures conducted on them as a means of bringing it to the attention of the State department, social services, and medical personnel past and present. Furthermore, this money could be used for these people to afford adoption if they so choose. By no means does any compensation make right what was done to these people but perhaps it will make the people of North Carolina and around the nation aware that there is an ethical line that you simply cannot cross and forced sterilizations is one of them.
I think the 99% of people would agree that forced sterilization is completely wrong. A lot of things we have talked about are ridiculous and things that most people would say are wrong, which makes me realize that there are more sick people out there than you would think. I do not understand how a group of people could agree on doing some of the things that we have talked about. I think that it is good in this situation to try to compensate for that, but nothing can bring back their ability to have children.
I agree with Adam that forced sterilization is indeed wrong. The fact the government using humanity as a means to improve our gene pool is wrong. That goes against the ideals of those in the past who had made great strides in making sure future generations would be able to live their own lives based on their own beliefs. Any amount of money can never justify the fact people are forcibly sterilized.
The most disturbing thing about this article is that the government backed this huge invasion against personal liberty and rights. One of their reasons stated in the article was to "improve the gene pool", as if the human population should be treated as a breeding farm selecting for traits in certain animals. This is scary to think that at one time the government would enforce and allow such actions against it's citizens. As most of you have said, yes the compensations are the right thing to do, but again its just a politically correct facade. What else can they really do to apologize? Money really doesn't make up for being forcibly sterilized. Also, I can see this turning into a huge mess as people start making false claims looking for free money.
I agree with you Michael that there is simply nothing that can compensate for these violations. Money cannot begin to repair the damage to their human dignity that was done. Everything that was part of the eugenics movement disturbs me. It was a terrible misunderstanding and abuse of evolutionary theory. I also agree with Michael that the government backing this movement is one of the most disturbing factors. It scares me to think how something like the theory of evolution can be twisted and used as justification for such unethical practices.
It definitally is unfair that all of these victims were coerced into getting sterilized or having there parents sign off on it. Also, no amount of money will take the place of the children and lives that these victims could and most likely would of lived. The state should offer the mental health services, so that these victims will get help coping with everything that they experienced. It is sad that some people may never get help from the state, because it cannot be proved that they had the operation in "state records". Also, it is crazy that just recently people are actually trying to do something about this and people ever thought it was an okay form of birth control!!
Brittani makes a valid point that no sum of money can compensate for the pain and emotional stress that accompanies this procedure. The state should provide services along with talking to the individuals who performed the surgery to convince them to see that the surgery could be more harmful than good. I think these surgery is wrong and should stop. Forcefully sterilizing individuals violates their autonomy. Besides just compensating them for what happened to these woman the government should try and stop this from happening.
What the state did to those people was immoral and wrong. They did not have the right to forcefully sterilize those people. Even though some may have had mental health problems, they still have a choice whether or not to get sterilized. The state is doing the right thing by giving them compensation for what they did but still does not justify or fix what they have done.
Completely immoral and wrong. That's like someone coming in today and saying oh you're not the most handsome/beautiful person so sorry to say you have to get a surgery so you cant go out and make ugly kids.... It's just wrong whether a person has a mental disability physical disability or genetic disability it does not mean that a person loses their rights to be able to have a child. Just because they have a mental disorder or whatever it doesn't mean their child will have the same disorder. I think it is frankly hilarious that they believe that giving the people who were forced to become sterile money. Money is not going to give them back the ability to have a child or care a baby in you for 9 months. Money might help their current circumstances but it will never make up for what was so wrongfully taken from them.
Atleast they had compensation at some point. I could talk at length about what they did and why it was wrong, but no detail for that is really necessary. They force sterilized people they deemed unfit to reproduce, nothing about that is right and that is that. What NC did is inexcusable, but atleast they are trying to make a step in the right direction. It's better than their close friend Mississippi who just up and forgot to free the slaves. (seriously, how does that slip through the cracks?
This is so wrong it is almost impossible for me to wrapped my head around, that this actually happened. Money does cure some things but in this instance I don't think it does at all. I feel bad for these people.
I feel that this was a great movement to reimburse those who were unfairly sterilized. To take a family away from a human being is so immoral, cruel, and sickening that I cant even think about how these people must feel. The choice to have kids was unfairly taken from them and I feel that they are doing the right thing to correct past actions
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with you brent. These people deserve to be reimbursed for this because they didn't know it was going on and didn't give their consent for the procedure in the first place. Its unfair to take away someone's ability to have children. Nobody has the right to stop someone from reproducing except that individual person. Its good that people realized how wrong this was and took a step to right their wrong, even if they can't actually go back in time to fix it, giving their families money is a step in the right direction.
DeleteI think that compensating these families is the right idea, but I don't think that there can ever truly be repayment for taking a potential child away from someone- basically taking away all the joys, happiness and life experience that comes with starting a family. Again, I think its good that something is being done to attempt to make things right, but money is nowhere near a substitue for not only taking a potential child away from someone, but denying them of their inherent dignity and autonomy to make their own life choices.
DeleteNever do I agree with anyone telling anyone or myself in this matter that they have to get something especially medically without my true consent. But it is important to look at it through a Legal standpoint, and the case of Buck v Bell in 1927. The issue in this case that a state statute permitting compulsory sterilization of the unfit, including the mentally retarded, "for the protection and health of the state" violate the Due Process? The United States Supreme Court ruled that it DID NOT violate the Due Process of the Fourteenth Amendment. Although I do not at all agree with this decision, and this holding as been criticized in the Federal and State courts, it has never expressly been overruled.
ReplyDeleteVery good point Jason, although if we would look through all the laws around our cities and states, I am sure we would find many out of date laws that are no longer enforced. I have heard that in Covington they have a law that forbids women wearing shorts out in public. Obviously this is not enforced, and also is a huge infringement on women's rights. This is just another example of old laws made back in the 1920's and 1930's that still have not been expressly over-ruled. The time it would take to comb through all the laws and officially over rule every law that is wrong, outdated, or no longer relevant would take a huge time commitment and therefore it has never really been done to a complete extent. So yes I agree that technically no law was broken, but many laws such as this are out of date. (And yes I know you don't agree with forced sterilizations but just trying to make a counter point for the sake of discussion).
DeleteAfter everything that we have learned so far in this class, I could probably make a list of all the moral infringements that took place with these eugenics programs. Coercion, deception, and manipulation were all used in order to serious and permanent medical procedures on people. It's so difficult to wrap my head around how so many people from social services and the medical field were willing to essentially strip away people's autonomy completely. As the article stated, there is no price you can put on the life/lives of the human beings you denied a person the right to reproduce but these acts cannot simply be swept under a rug and forgotten. If anything, these people should be compensated for the unethical procedures conducted on them as a means of bringing it to the attention of the State department, social services, and medical personnel past and present. Furthermore, this money could be used for these people to afford adoption if they so choose. By no means does any compensation make right what was done to these people but perhaps it will make the people of North Carolina and around the nation aware that there is an ethical line that you simply cannot cross and forced sterilizations is one of them.
ReplyDeleteI think the 99% of people would agree that forced sterilization is completely wrong. A lot of things we have talked about are ridiculous and things that most people would say are wrong, which makes me realize that there are more sick people out there than you would think. I do not understand how a group of people could agree on doing some of the things that we have talked about. I think that it is good in this situation to try to compensate for that, but nothing can bring back their ability to have children.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Adam that forced sterilization is indeed wrong. The fact the government using humanity as a means to improve our gene pool is wrong. That goes against the ideals of those in the past who had made great strides in making sure future generations would be able to live their own lives based on their own beliefs. Any amount of money can never justify the fact people are forcibly sterilized.
DeleteThe most disturbing thing about this article is that the government backed this huge invasion against personal liberty and rights. One of their reasons stated in the article was to "improve the gene pool", as if the human population should be treated as a breeding farm selecting for traits in certain animals. This is scary to think that at one time the government would enforce and allow such actions against it's citizens. As most of you have said, yes the compensations are the right thing to do, but again its just a politically correct facade. What else can they really do to apologize? Money really doesn't make up for being forcibly sterilized. Also, I can see this turning into a huge mess as people start making false claims looking for free money.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Michael that there is simply nothing that can compensate for these violations. Money cannot begin to repair the damage to their human dignity that was done. Everything that was part of the eugenics movement disturbs me. It was a terrible misunderstanding and abuse of evolutionary theory. I also agree with Michael that the government backing this movement is one of the most disturbing factors. It scares me to think how something like the theory of evolution can be twisted and used as justification for such unethical practices.
DeleteIt definitally is unfair that all of these victims were coerced into getting sterilized or having there parents sign off on it. Also, no amount of money will take the place of the children and lives that these victims could and most likely would of lived. The state should offer the mental health services, so that these victims will get help coping with everything that they experienced. It is sad that some people may never get help from the state, because it cannot be proved that they had the operation in "state records". Also, it is crazy that just recently people are actually trying to do something about this and people ever thought it was an okay form of birth control!!
ReplyDeleteBrittani makes a valid point that no sum of money can compensate for the pain and emotional stress that accompanies this procedure. The state should provide services along with talking to the individuals who performed the surgery to convince them to see that the surgery could be more harmful than good. I think these surgery is wrong and should stop. Forcefully sterilizing individuals violates their autonomy. Besides just compensating them for what happened to these woman the government should try and stop this from happening.
DeleteWhat the state did to those people was immoral and wrong. They did not have the right to forcefully sterilize those people. Even though some may have had mental health problems, they still have a choice whether or not to get sterilized. The state is doing the right thing by giving them compensation for what they did but still does not justify or fix what they have done.
ReplyDeleteCompletely immoral and wrong. That's like someone coming in today and saying oh you're not the most handsome/beautiful person so sorry to say you have to get a surgery so you cant go out and make ugly kids.... It's just wrong whether a person has a mental disability physical disability or genetic disability it does not mean that a person loses their rights to be able to have a child. Just because they have a mental disorder or whatever it doesn't mean their child will have the same disorder. I think it is frankly hilarious that they believe that giving the people who were forced to become sterile money. Money is not going to give them back the ability to have a child or care a baby in you for 9 months. Money might help their current circumstances but it will never make up for what was so wrongfully taken from them.
ReplyDeleteAtleast they had compensation at some point. I could talk at length about what they did and why it was wrong, but no detail for that is really necessary. They force sterilized people they deemed unfit to reproduce, nothing about that is right and that is that. What NC did is inexcusable, but atleast they are trying to make a step in the right direction. It's better than their close friend Mississippi who just up and forgot to free the slaves. (seriously, how does that slip through the cracks?
ReplyDeleteThis is so wrong it is almost impossible for me to wrapped my head around, that this actually happened. Money does cure some things but in this instance I don't think it does at all. I feel bad for these people.
ReplyDelete